New Protest Update

Here's an update from the Protest Organizer:


First, we had an amazingly productive and supportive meeting with a representative
from the OC Sheriff's Department. I was nervous before about safety, but we got
wonderful advice and they are going to be very helpful. I'll say it again, but on
the day, PLEASE thank them repeatedly!

Second, I want to ask everyone who is attending YOUR thoughts on how to make this a
positive, peaceful and pro-active rally. ...

Third, I have a few really wonderful and artistic sign examples on the website at
http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http://www.allornotatall.org%2F%3Fpage_id%3D144%2C
but does anyone have any other sites or artwork to use? Again, email me at
info@allornotatall.org if you do.

There will be an email closer to the date including information about parking,
carpooling and safety and so on.

Happy New Year!
Josh

P.S. PLEASE invite more people to come. I hear there might be a bus-load coming from
San Jose and we want to make sure we have at least 500 people ther

Protest Jan 18th

I didn't start this one, someone on Facebook did. The event has almost 300 people who say they are coming. You can go too, even if you aren't on Facebook to see the event. Details from the Facebook page:

Date: Sunday, January 18, 2009
Time: 11:00am - 2:00pm
Location: Saddleback Church in Lake Forest

Evangelical Pastor Rick Warren has been invited by President-Elect Obama to deliver the invocation at the Presidential Inauguration. Rick Warren is one of the most unabashed anti-gay religious leaders in the country. He has compared same-sex couples that wanted to get married to child molesters and polygamists, and he has a congregation of over 20,000 people who listen to his message. He is quoted as saying that "there is no reason to change the universal, historical definition of marriage to appease 2 percent of our population."

We are going to hold a peaceful protest outside his church the Sunday before he delivers the invocation in D.C. to let him know that we are not some radical, crazy fringe group that is merely looking to be appeased! It is time for us to go stand outside his homophobic bubble and show him the harm that he is causing. Show him that he cannot use religion and the Bible as a weapon. Show him that we are not child molesters and we don't believe in incest. Show him that we are also kind, decent humans who deserve the same treatment in the eyes of the law as every member of his congregation!

There will be more details to come as we get closer, but please spread the word to all of your friends who live in the Southern California area. This isn't going to be an angry protest where we scream at an empty church in the middle of the week. This is a peaceful event where we will stand there and make all the congregants see that we are completely worthy of equality and respect!

Just to be clear, this is not a protest against all Evangelicals at all. This is a protest in front of one man's congregation to let him know that his views and his pulpit are causing great harm to his fellow humans.

P.S. We will talk more about transportation as things move closer to the date.

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The Facebook page is here: http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=40182104481

Blatant Lies? Or Clever Deception?

This is a zinger. Rick Warren laid out a long video message to his congregation on Sunday night where he DENIED equating gay relationships to incest. He said he NEVER did that. My previous post shows he equated gay MARRIAGE to incest. A very clever deception? Accident? Or blatant lies? You be the judge...

Gay's Can be Members now??

Apparently, someone has pulled some information from the Saddleback website which includes the part about how you cannot be a member if you don't repent from your gay lifestyle. Does that mean gays can be members now or dose it just mean Saddleback is trying to whitewash and water down their image? Check the cache of the page here. It looks very different now. Instead is a like to some audio clips about what Saddleback believes and one about how homosexuality is clearly wrong in God's eyes.

I still ask though - can gays now become members? Can someone answer this for me? If Saddleback thinks Homosexuality is wrong and thus you can't be a member because it's wrong in God's eyes then I still argue there are a whole lot of other people who should not be allowed to be members for "All have sinned and fallen short" (Romans 3:23).

So what gives? Why the removal? Is it a change in policy or an attempt to water down their image?

Remember what Rick Warren recently said about how gay marriage is equivalent to incest and child molestation:

New Saddleback Protest?

I'm proposing another Protest on Jan 18th at Saddleback. What do you all think? Who's in?

Considering Obama picked Warren to speak at his inauguration and considering Rick Warren has compared gay couples to incest...

Rick Warren is definitely climbing the anti-gay anti-equality list really fast. I don't think people are going to buy his "I'm accepting of gays" statement much longer and are starting to see right through that.

Rick Warren @ Obama's Innauguration?

Seriously President Elect Obama - what are you thinking? Thanks for the slap in the face for gays fighting for equality. I know you have placed many openly gay people in high level positions, but to place an openly anti-equality pastor into such a high profile roll in your inauguration?

Please go here and demand Obama rescind his invitation to Rick Warren. I've already done it. What are you waiting for?

Who voted for Prop 8?

We already know about the black vote. According to the OC Register, here is some more (not surprising) information:

Who voted yes:
85% of Evangelical Christians
77% of Republicans
70% of African Americans
62% of people without a college degree
61% of Hispanics
50% of Whites

Now are people still wondering why we protested outside Saddleback Church?

I love the statistic that 62% of people without a college degree backed it.

So the less educated also helped pass Prop 8. not a surprise to me at all. ignorance is bliss!

Sadly I fall into the 15% of Evangelical Christians who did not support Prop 8. I don't know if I should be horrified or surprised that there 15 out of 100 reasonable Evangelical Christians.

I wonder if polling had been done back in the day, how many Evangelical Christians would have supported Martin Luther's breakaway from the Catholic Church? Or the justification for slavery? Or the banning of interracial marriage? Hmmm....

Also:
Most voters agree that too much money was spent on the initiative campaigns (75%), the ballot wording was too complicated and confusing (63%), and that there were too many initiatives (52%).


And this from the Mercury News (as your education level goes down your chance of voting FOR prop 8 apparently went up):
EXCERPT: But while a majority of non-white voters backed a ban on gay marriage, the key finding in the new survey was that voters' position on Proposition 8 was determined more by their level of education and income than their race or ethnicity, said PPIC president Mark Baldassare. Among Californians with a high school diploma or less, 69 percent voted for Proposition 8. Among college graduates, 57 percent voted against it.

"Both among whites and non-whites, among college graduates and among upper-income voters, Prop. 8 lost," Baldassare said. "Among both whites and non-whites, among non-college graduates and lower-income voters, Prop. 8 won. It seems to me that some of what we attributed to race and ethnic differences really had to do with a socioeconomic divide in regard to same-sex marriage."