Apparently, someone has pulled some information from the Saddleback website which includes the part about how you cannot be a member if you don't repent from your gay lifestyle. Does that mean gays can be members now or dose it just mean Saddleback is trying to whitewash and water down their image? Check the cache of the page here. It looks very different now. Instead is a like to some audio clips about what Saddleback believes and one about how homosexuality is clearly wrong in God's eyes.
I still ask though - can gays now become members? Can someone answer this for me? If Saddleback thinks Homosexuality is wrong and thus you can't be a member because it's wrong in God's eyes then I still argue there are a whole lot of other people who should not be allowed to be members for "All have sinned and fallen short" (Romans 3:23).
So what gives? Why the removal? Is it a change in policy or an attempt to water down their image?
Remember what Rick Warren recently said about how gay marriage is equivalent to incest and child molestation:
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8 comments:
Very Interesting...
Same sex marriage is the same as any other "consenting adult" relationship such as incest or polygamy. Rick Warren never said that is the same as child molestation. You also know (since YOU were a member) that homosexuals are allowed to be members. Your complaint was that openly-homosexual COUPLES are not allowed to be members. Neither are openly-heterosexuals living in sin allowed to become members.
Specifically from the Saddleback web site:
"In equal desire to follow Jesus, we also would not accept a couple into membership at Saddleback who were not willing to repent of the sexual sin of living together before marriage. That does not mean this couple cannot attend church – we hope they do! God’s Word has the power to change our lives."
No comment about the HETEROSEXUAL couples being excluded from church membership?
I also think it's silly that non married straight couples having sex can't be members. As I've said before - if you want to disclude membership to so called sexual sinners - then a lot of people shouldn't be allowed to be members. And since when did churches start denying membership to sinners???
P.S. Can you give me a Bible Verse that specifically mentions pre-marital sex as a sin and what the consequences are?
1 Cor. 6:9-20, 7:1-9, 10:8; 2 Cor. 11:2; Eph. 5:3; Heb. 13:4; Rev. 21:8; Rom. 6:23; 1 Thes. 4:2-8; Acts 15:20; Exo. 22:16-17; and Deut. 22:13-21.
Charles,
All those verses talk about sexual immorality and fornication (both of which generally relate to sexual worship of foreign gods). The exception might be 1 Corinthians 7:1-9 which is more a verse on celibacy.
Jesus never talked about pre-marital sex either.
I'm just sayin' :) But that doesn't really address the Gay Marriage issue which is what this blog is about anyway...
I just used it as an illustration that sometimes we use things in the Bible in ways they weren't intended. Ie. the Bible and how it was used to fight against interracial marriage: http://www.religioustolerance.org/marracbib.htm. If you read those verses and put yourself back 50 years, you might have believed interracial marriage was wrong too if you read them with a certain predisposition.
I was actually around 50 years ago, and I wasn't against inter-racial marriage. So, that's just a strawman argument.
"Fornication" applies to ALL sex outside of marriage -- those are just SOME of Scripture to answer your question for "a Bible Verse that specifically mentions pre-marital sex as a sin and what the consequences are" -- the Bible doesn't specifically use the words "Trinity" or "human embryonic stem cell research" either. Regardless, I've studied it in the original Greek and Hebrew, so I think I am using it exactly as God / Bible intended, thank you very much.
Let me know if you get any more interest in Saddleback protest on January 18th (you do realize that Pastor Rick won't even be here, right?). Have a Happy New Year!
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